I was surprised to hear you say the batteries are likely to outlast the car.
When I looked up the link provided for the Chinese battery company, they mention 15 years.
I keep my cars for 20 years - and expect them to last much longer! What would wear out in an electric car, that is not easily replaceable, besides the batteries?
My last car (1993 Volvo) was replaced in 2013 because it had a challenging wiring issue that kept draining the battery - and I didn't want to invest any more figuring it out. I donated it to Palo Alto High School for them to learn on! The car before (1972 Volvo) was crushed in an accident when hit in a freeway pile-up, and I had a new baby so I wanted a non-compromised crush cage for our car. But really our cars should be able to keep running for much longer. I prefer to keep repairing and updating a good car.
I believe the average car lifespan in the US is about 12 years or 200K miles. The CATL battery is targeting 1M miles as a warranty, but it should last longer; the warranty value is chosen so in most cases it will never needs to be invoked.
Our 2013 FIAT 500E came with a warranty of 8 years. We have had it for 11 years with no problems beyond the first few months and I expect it will be useful for 10 more years.
The main point I was making is that battery deterioration should not be an issue deterring using the battery for bidirectional uses.
Does that mean the average of when a car is sent to a scrap yard as junk metal is 12 years?!! If so, that needs to change! And is as big a problem as using fossil fuels! Cars can last 100 years, if properly maintained. Older cars were often so much better built, less toxic, and more interesting! I hate many of the electronic "improvements" in modern cars - they just don't work well, fail too easily (possibly from constant vibration), and are a nuisance. I wish I could get a plain metal key for my car, instead of a quirky, clunky, expensive battery box.
I think when you said "V2G is essentially V2L " you meant V2H. Or maybe not?
I had to look up V2L (load) which is ironic as some 13 years ago I was in Australia explaining what all the V2X parts were. At the time there was just V, I & ,P.
The dcbel product is intriguing. Its exciting to see new products in the marketplace.
Yep, it should be V2H. Too many three letter acronyms. I'll fix it.
BTW, I avoided using V2X because there was an older use of V2X that was focused on data communication between a car and "something else", like another car - for navigation - or a traffic light, or whatever.
That’s the V2X I was referring to all those years ago and it is still very much valid and talked about. It how vehicles signal their presence to others for collision avoidance. V2I, infrastructure, includes traffic signal coordination so you know how fast to go to get the green light. El Camino is instrumented for that.
It needs to be a mandated feature for it to take off and that the problem. China seems to be leading.
Update - Janisse Quiñones, the CEO for LA Water and Power division, is quoted in an LATimes article as exploring the use of bidirectional charging to help LA meet their renewable energy goal. See https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2024-06-13/column-dwps-new-leader-wants-to-shake-things-up-it-wont-be-easy-boiling-point
I was surprised to hear you say the batteries are likely to outlast the car.
When I looked up the link provided for the Chinese battery company, they mention 15 years.
I keep my cars for 20 years - and expect them to last much longer! What would wear out in an electric car, that is not easily replaceable, besides the batteries?
My last car (1993 Volvo) was replaced in 2013 because it had a challenging wiring issue that kept draining the battery - and I didn't want to invest any more figuring it out. I donated it to Palo Alto High School for them to learn on! The car before (1972 Volvo) was crushed in an accident when hit in a freeway pile-up, and I had a new baby so I wanted a non-compromised crush cage for our car. But really our cars should be able to keep running for much longer. I prefer to keep repairing and updating a good car.
I believe the average car lifespan in the US is about 12 years or 200K miles. The CATL battery is targeting 1M miles as a warranty, but it should last longer; the warranty value is chosen so in most cases it will never needs to be invoked.
Our 2013 FIAT 500E came with a warranty of 8 years. We have had it for 11 years with no problems beyond the first few months and I expect it will be useful for 10 more years.
The main point I was making is that battery deterioration should not be an issue deterring using the battery for bidirectional uses.
12 years is the average age of a car in the US. It’s been gradually increasing. My cars are 20 and 14 years old.
Does that mean the average of when a car is sent to a scrap yard as junk metal is 12 years?!! If so, that needs to change! And is as big a problem as using fossil fuels! Cars can last 100 years, if properly maintained. Older cars were often so much better built, less toxic, and more interesting! I hate many of the electronic "improvements" in modern cars - they just don't work well, fail too easily (possibly from constant vibration), and are a nuisance. I wish I could get a plain metal key for my car, instead of a quirky, clunky, expensive battery box.
Nice article.
I think when you said "V2G is essentially V2L " you meant V2H. Or maybe not?
I had to look up V2L (load) which is ironic as some 13 years ago I was in Australia explaining what all the V2X parts were. At the time there was just V, I & ,P.
The dcbel product is intriguing. Its exciting to see new products in the marketplace.
Yep, it should be V2H. Too many three letter acronyms. I'll fix it.
BTW, I avoided using V2X because there was an older use of V2X that was focused on data communication between a car and "something else", like another car - for navigation - or a traffic light, or whatever.
That’s the V2X I was referring to all those years ago and it is still very much valid and talked about. It how vehicles signal their presence to others for collision avoidance. V2I, infrastructure, includes traffic signal coordination so you know how fast to go to get the green light. El Camino is instrumented for that.
It needs to be a mandated feature for it to take off and that the problem. China seems to be leading.